The LFR enigma

I did my first LFR today after finally getting my armor up to the required level. I’ve been struggling for ages to find a good trinket. Apart from Anhuur’s Hymnal nothing has dropped for me in the Cataclysm heroics. I refuse to pay gold (that I haven’t got anyway) on the Darkmoon Volcano Card (even though I know the minute I get over 6K I will!) And I was beat up too many times in Tol Barad yesterday to even entertain the notion of  getting Mirror of Broken Images. So up until today I was still using (don’t laugh) Maghia’s Misguided Quill! It was totally bringing my level average down (you’re bringing me down maaaaan) and I thought I was doomed to be at level 368 for ever. But today came salvation! I came across Soul Casket on a website & found out that the guy who stands in front of Magatha actually sells it (for some reason I’d not  looked at what he was selling   – yes I’m an idiot). So I replaced my quill with a casket (ahhh the fate of all writers), rose  above 372 & finally finally got to queue in LFR.

I wish I hadn’t bothered. In fact I wish I’d not bothered getting to 85 to try this stuff out. I  wish I was still an innocent Level 1 in Northshire Abbey having fun killing kobolds. But even that had it’s moments (I’m still terrified of anyone from the Defias school of thought). Perhaps what I really wish is that I never actually started playing this game – because at least then I’d still have my  belief that most people (mass murderers aside – and they always skew the averages) are inherently good, kind and helpful, as opposed to my now  certain knowledge  that too many people are arrogant, egotistical & intolerant – and often very delusional about their own abilities.

The LFR group  I chose was Fall of Deathwing. Before going in I read some very brief strats on WoW Insider & it seemed ok.  I ended up joining  just before Warmaster Blackhorn. That fight was pretty straightforward. Crucially there was no abuse, no deaths and I was middlish with my dps – all seemed well.

The next bit was Spine of Deathwing. Here is where it started to go wrong. At one point during the fight someone yelled STOP DPS. I immediately stopped casting and waited to hear what to do next. Nothing. Then another STOP DPS FOR GOD’S SAKE. Ok I wasn’t casting but clearly others were still attacking, but in any case just yelling “Stop”  without saying anything else is not particularly helpful. YOU NOOBS was next (obviously – what else?). Then ” WHEN I HAD TO WAIT 15 MINS FOR A BUFF I KNEW THIS WOULD BE BAD” from some other poor hard-done  by soul (15 mins for a buff- bless- what is the world coming too?).

This all annoyed me. Firstly yes buffing is an obvious thing to do & we should all do it (I do it compulsively – even casting focus magic on an enhancement shaman once) but try not to read too much into a missing buff. Moreover, you’re in LFR! People going in LFR are usually – I think – people who aren’t part of a raiding guild, are  trying to gear up,  are often going in a raid for the first time etc. If you’re expecting perfect knowledge of all the  strategies you’re in the wrong place. Also if you’re going to tell people what to do then tell them properly not just half formed  statements. It is not helpful. I read  on WoW Insider that basically what the person meant to say was, “You must kill 9 corrupted bloods near an amalgamation to cause him to explode (don’t kill the big add before he transforms), loosening the plate.”

Why couldn’t someone have said something like that – in shorthand obviously!? Actually the time they took to type the criticism  could have been better spent doing that (actually I’d rather they’d have just logged off and gone  in the corner to reflect on what  an  obnoxious person they’d become – preferably with a bit of face punching- but you can’t have everything ).

Anyway we got through that bit finally. The next part was horrendous. We wiped twice at the very end. As far as I can see people were dpsing the tentacle and  turning to the adds when they came in, then turning back etc, and doing the same pattern on each of the platforms.  The only thing no one did was attack the bolt before it exploded but that useful instruction was not in the strategy I read & no one thought to mention it in the raid until after the 2nd wipe. In the end I and several other dps were booted for being at the low end of the dps table. Only the 2nd time in my WoW history I’ve ever been booted 😦

I just don’t know what people expect from LFR. I know it’s annoying when people don’t listen – but say something it’s worth listening to then.  Telling people to “Sell the game” is uncalled for. In an LFR group everyone is  85 and has an ilevel over 372. They may not be brilliant or expert but they have clearly devoted a not inconsiderable amount of time to the game. They  can  play- if not they’d still be running around in circles in Teldrassil wondering why they’ve not levelled after killing 1000 blades of grass or something. But they might not know how to play in a raid. That is the  part of the game they are now learning. It’s all part of the learning curve. So rather than abusing why not try helping?

And who are these pros in LFR anyway? Why are they in LFR? They’re like an older teenager kept back in junior school for failing exams and then delusionally throwing their weight around the smaller pupils and claiming intellectual superiority because they know their Two times table. If they were any good wouldn’t they be doing a normal or heroic raid? Are they only in LFR because they like to be the big fish in a small pond because that’s easier and because they can’t actually hack it when it gets too tough?

Yes dreadful generalisations I know but I’m annoyed and when I’m annoyed I’m mean spirited. I’m sure people are in LFR for all sorts of reasons – but what I saw today indicates that  being kind to others, supporting newcomers to the world of raiding, is rarely one of them. For many  they just want another opportunity to deride, ridicule and criticise, and to confirm to themselves that all people – apart from themselves of course – are basically crap and don’t deserve to breathe the same (virtual) air as they do.

LFR then is the place the  arrogant come to bolster further their delusional self esteem. If only it was the place people came to help and support. As in the real world people find it easier to adopt a world weary cynicism than to actually be a force for good in the world – and the world (both real & Azeroth) is much the poorer for it.


40 thoughts on “The LFR enigma

  1. Yeah, the “pros” and people that afk and just act jerky are doing essentially the opposite for LFR. Instead of making it a good time for people to see content that may not get the opportunity they are making many of those people dread going in. Its sad really, but also the reason why I try to take at least one buddy into an LFR situation with me so that I’ll at least have someone to share in the insanity with.

    1. I’ve seen that negativity in dungeons of course – but this was on a whole different scale. Really took me by surprise. My experience today was much better thank goodness.

  2. I left WoW just as the LFR feature was being implemented so I never tried it myself but several friends have nothing but awful and defeated words to say about it. I think your analogy of big fish in a little pond might be right on.

    I play SWTOR now and I have noticed a huge absence of trolls and negative attitudes. Sure there are a few who feel the need to talk trash but their words are met with silence in Star Wars. There negative projection is stopped dead when no one responds. There is an unspoken “Do Not Feed The Trolls” rule. You are playing with only people from your server so there is reputation and community governing your actions. Black ball yourself by being a jerk and suddenly your angry troll words are only affecting you.

    1. I play both SWtOR and WoW and I think this comment is on the money. As general chat is split up via planets, when you are in a zone you don’t have a max level lambasting you for asking where some mobs are, or even what gear you should use – because the only people who can see the chat are on your planet (and therefore are near your own level)
      Heroic quests and Flashpoints are a dream compared to WoW as well, I think that has something to do with the lack of Dungeon Finder though. You are not playing with nameless people, you are playing with people that you will more than likely see again while levelling.

      Not bashing Wow at all though – I love the game!

      1. Really tempted to try SWToR – everyone seems really positive about it. Sort of told myself must only play WoW though – will never get off this computer otherwise 🙂

    2. So do you think part of the problem in WoW is the cross server aspect? I can see how knowing you might well be running into someone in Stormwind might change some behaviour. That said I’ve frequently been really glad I’m on a different server from some of the people I’ve met in groups. About the only thing that makes me feel better is that I might not run into them again!!

      1. I’ve been in dungeons with people I really would never want to see again, but mostly that is due to the ‘lulz noob, this is my 500th char, learn 2play’ aspects. Messing up doesn’t make you a bad player – I’ve messed up in deadmines loads of times on Alts, and I know my way around that place like the back of my hand. You see the difference when you are with a guild – if you mess up they don’t rage quit or name call, they talk it out. They know they’ll see you most days, so they are nice to you. In Dungeon finder its mostly always a ‘go go go’ fest, and one mistake that would be nothing in a group of people you know becomes the ‘WORST TANK EVER!!!!!1!!’

        For me, I think one of the main reasons that you don’t see all that negative chatter in SWtOR is due to the fact that it is a really new game. Very few people have more than one max level character. You may see a ‘I’ve been here before’ or ‘Taris is a nightmare the second time around!’ but 100% of the time I’ve needed help it was given in main chat, politely, and a ‘good luck’ tacked on the end.

        The difference it made to my play time was honestly surprising to me.

      2. Yes I can imagine the newer the game the more the help, greater the patience etc. Maybe it’s inevitable when a game has been around as long as WoW …but new people come to the game every day & it seems it’s not always particularly pleasant for them.

  3. Excellant read! And I can relate. My highest level character is my 81 DK, so I haven’t had the chance yet to do LFR. I am sure I will be booted too the 1st time through. I hear back when it was new the QQ was a lot less. When I grow up to 85 I am going to offer to tank for my giuldies to help the up and commers learn to do their first heroics.

    Kanig on Gorfiend

    1. That’ll be really good – I think it’s great to have a supportive tank through heroics. That’s what I wanted Bravetank to be – but she’s still in her 60s barely confident enough to tank Hellfire Ramparts! Can’t imagine tanking Cata heroics!

  4. Well I am At the opposite end of the raiding spectrum from you as the raid leader of an 8/8HC guild and in my experience you are dead right about the people who shout abuse in LFR being big fish in a small pond.

    Having said this I would like to defend the initial STOP DPS call on spine. In the heat of a raid that seems a perfectly appropriate thing to call, mid fight is not the time to explain a fights tactics. The continued insults were unneccessary but the initial call was fine. The time to explain these things is after a wipe or before the fight if someone asks.

    1. @Masith

      I think Bravetank’s point was, if the person had time during the fight to sit around typing QQ like “I knew when it would be bad when I had to wait15 minutes to get a buff”, then they certainly had time to type “Stop dpsing amals till 9 bloods are dead” if they wanted to be helpful instead of being a cock.

      I agree though that they wouldn’t know it needed explaining unless someone asked.


      I wish I could say it gets better in LFR. The best you can hope for is a silent, drama-free run. I suppose because, as with LFG, it’s usually the douches who act up and make noise and stick in people’s minds, while the nice polite people are just quietly running and don’t stick in anyone’s minds. And LFR has just been reduced to a greedy grabfest for loot regardless of needs–people routinely need on everything they can even if they’re already wearing the unique-equipped item, just so they have a bargaining chip to trade for other loot from other people who also needed on stuff they didn’t need. It’s madness.

      If you do feel like running again, try queueing in with a friend (healers get the shortest queue time, btw). As bayfayfay says, it makes it a lot more bearable when you have someone to talk to about the madness going on around you.

      1. You’re right about the quiet people just getting on with it. When we wiped the second time I whispered thanks to the healer because I didn’t want to type it in raid chat & draw attention to myself. She whispered me back. I think we both wanted to be under the radar. Went in Part 1 today with the new guild I’m in though & it was far far better. Was living on my nerves throughout but actually completed the wing! It is better with supportive people around you. It’s just I don’t like to ask people to come in things with me so I just queue on my own & hope for the best!

    2. Yes I guess the “stop DPS” in itself was fine and it must have been frustrating for him/her when some people didn’t (I think they were AoEing & stuff). But I think once it was clear they didn’t understand then it would have been more helpful to explain than to abuse. But from other comments I’ve read on here I can see now that bit of the encounter tends to be a bit tense!!!

  5. I tried LFR twice, just after the patch had dropped. Both times, I ended up in terrible groups, and had a raiding experience that was enough to turn me off the game completely. On top of that, my regular raid group fell apart, because a lot of members actually preferred the ease of LFR gear upgrades compared to the slow progress we had going on for us in Firelands.

    I haven’t gone back to WoW since. I don’t like the direction of LFR. For me, raiding was always something you did with a tightly knit group, and LFR is as far away from that for me as you can only get.

    I will probably return to WoW for MoP, but I won’t set foot in the iteration of LFR it’ll have, no thanks.

    1. That’s a shame about your regular raid group. I would think it’s a far better experience doing a proper organised raid with your guildmates. And a real shame it meant you left WoW. I completely understand though – yesterday had me really questioning what I’m getting out of the game.

  6. Spine is always the same thing, where people have to say stop dps, only for 3 or 4 dpsers to not stop, and then everyone gets mad. Occasionally the amalgamation dies before absorbing enough blood and then someone ragequits. I remember one time where we ended up somehow killing all 4 initial corruptions (in case you wondered, he sprouts a new one in that case so you can’t make the fight unwinnable). Some are invariably autoattacking while afk or trying to top recount. Or you’ll have some hunter or warlock whose pet is dpsing one of the other corruptions. It really shows why LFR has to be as nerfed as it is, because that fight would be a total block if it was anything near the appropriate difficulty level. Part of the reason people are so impatient is the ‘random dungeon effect’, where you don’t mind explaining once or twice or thrice, but the thirtieth time you are tired of it and a little short. It happens to the best of us. Spine is by far the worst LFR fight. It’s especially boring when you heal it.

    1. Yes I can imagine that if you’re having to explain it again and again and again it would become frustrating beyond belief. I also think the pressure of the dps meter leads to some bad gameplay. I wasted my cool downs earlier today because I thought I had time to use them on trash & have them become available again before the boss – and I was only thinking that way because I was worried about my dps. Dreading doing that spine bit again now!

      1. For Spine, you’ll want to save your dps cooldowns for the tendon thing that pops up after amalgamation dies. It has to die before it finishes casting a spell to reseal the breach in DW’s armor.

        Well, in LFR it doesn’t really matter, but in case you want to try normal sometime.

        Also, has it occurred to anyone how gross this fight really is? You’re fighting tentacles and tendons and slimes and weird ass abominable creature things. Coming out of his FLESH. EWWW.

      2. Yes …now I think about it I take back one of my previous comments when I talk about having a crush on Deathwing in his Lord Prestor form!

  7. There are two general observations about WoW that I would apply here (and they are by no means limited to LFR). One, lots of players suffer what I call NPCism where they are unable to distinguish between other players and NPCs. Two, players who have played WoW a long time find it hard to understand the experience of new players. I try very hard to maintain, through blogs and friends, an understanding of the experience of the new player in WoW. I try, but reading your post just highlighted to me where I fail. There are so many expectations I place on myself as a result of playing the game for a long time and to a high-ish level (once upon a time). Its hard to remember that new players don’t have those expectations. And even the nicest players might just not understand the different point of view.

    If you are EU based and fancy coming along with us on our guild LFR run via Real ID (Wednesday 9pm server time) you are welcome to email me via the address on my about page and we’ll set something up 🙂

    Also there are crib sheets for LFR on my blog and I would welcome the point of view of someone who might be able to point out if I have missed something because I make assumptions based on my own experiences!

    1. Never thought about NPCism. It makes me sad that people are forgetting there are real people playing this game. Some of the best times I’ve had in game are when I’ve connected on a real level with people. Thank you for the LFR invite- I am EU based – I’ll email you. And used your crib sheets today – went in Siege. It was great. The crib sheet was really helpful. I love the instruction to “hug up”. 🙂

  8. I don’t know if it works the same in the EU, but on US servers, your best bet for a smooth run is to go on Tuesday night. Those tend to have the more hardcore raiders just looking for a single drop to fill out their gearset or to cap valor. I guess for you that would be Wednesday after maintenance and raids reset?

    I’m not saying that post-maintenance groups can’t be difficult, but we tend to have fewer people shouting NOOB! in the runs.

  9. The best time to do LFR was from about 3 weeks-12 weeks into the patch. By that stage 90% of the players knew what to do and still actually cared. Early in the week helps as well of course.

    Stop all dps until something changes? Yea its not that bad an idea, if you had asked why and I had been in the raid I would have explained, but I stopped virtually all lfr 4 weeks ago. The remaining few upgrades not being worth the aggravation.

    Yes, some might as well have got into lfr by killed 1000 blades of grass, is it really that hard to figure out that starting an encounter with 2 heals or zero tanks is a bad idea? that just clicking on the boss to start auto attack and walking away from your computer is not enough?

    1. To be honest I had no idea that some people click on the boss, start auto attack & walk away until I tread some of the comments on here. I’m genuinely surprised at that! I am too scared to look away from my screen for one second!

  10. The biggest problem with trying to explain a simple strategy (and lets face it ALL the “strategy” required for LFR bosses is pretty simple) is that even when typing out a basic list of instructions, someone invariably pulls while I’m busy. Since I’m usually tanking it means stopping and tanking rather than finishing my train of thought. One of the good quality of life changes Blizzard added recently was that tanks have assist automatically now, so my /rw macros help a bit.

    BTW the are still proper raiders in LFR – either on mains looking for an illusive tier token, or on alts gearing up. But I really wouldn’t have a clue as to whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. Remember if 5/6 people are being abusive in a LFR raid, 80% aren’t

    1. Yes that’s fair enough. To be honest in the one I wrote about it was probably only about 3 people – so when you think about it the percentage is low. It’s just they were very vocal and very abusive and pretty much set the tone & experience of the run.

  11. There is far too much abuse in WoW group activities; it really is like being back in the play ground, and we should not have to put up with it. We play this game for pleasure, not to be abused by people. When I do battlegrounds I quite often turn off the relevant chat channel, because I know that if my team is losing (and lets face it, statistically there is a 50/50 chance in a random group that we will lose), the inevitable comments appear – “OMFG noobs, why did you let them take X?”, “Well done Retards, way to go losers”, etc always appear. Even one BG we lost by 10 points, some idiot had to make a disparaging comment about how badly we played.

    I would love to see the ability to talk, or rather, to abuse other people removed from LFR and Battlegrounds. If you took away the chat channels and replaced them with some kind of menu-driven system instead, then the experience would be improved massively. Some simple commands like ‘Stop DPS on…target” or “Switch DPS to…target”, “Incoming to Stables”, “Go to WW” would be so much better.

    1. That menu system sounds good and would ensure only valid & useful things are posted. It’s bad though that the abuse that is all too common in dungeons/raids would make something like that preferable. It is disappointing. In my post today though I do talk about a much nicer experience where the chat has been supportive and friendly – but that is within a guild. It’s a rare find in a PuG.

  12. This might make me quite unpopular, but here goes.

    “And who are these pros in LFR anyway? Why are they in LFR?”

    To gear up their main spec (four-set bonuses are hilariously powerful for some classes, to the point that having a LFR set piece in the slot is better than having a higher-ilvl piece if it gives you the set bonus). To gear up their off spec. To gear up somebody else’s main or off spec (there’s been more than one time we needed somebody to be a particular spec for a particular fight, and we went to LFR for extra gear). To gear up alts. To test the performance of a potential trial in a raiding environment (when they don’t provide logs).

    As for typing out strategy: beyond simple instructions (“stop DPS on the amalgamation”, “kill purple”, “stack in the onslaught”, etc), you’re seriously overestimating the amount of time people have to just stand still and type. There’s a reason the vast majority of high-end guilds runs on voice communication.

    LFR-Spine is the odd encounter out. On the first plate nobody is particularly busy (with only one corruption killed, blood spawns are very slow, so you end up having to wait a fair bit of time before the amalgamation gets 9 stacks), and so they’ve got plenty of time to type.

    Everywhere else? Good luck explaining strategy to a LFR group. At best, people will be getting antsy and “gogogogogogogo”-y about it. Most of the time, somebody will get bored and pull. In the worst case, the aforementioned somebody will completely neglect any issues that should’ve been fixed before pulling (I’ve been in LFR groups where somebody pulled the encounter when we were waiting for one tank, 3 healers and a few spare DPS, and was completely baffled when the raid wiped).

    Personally, I don’t expect stellar players doing fantastic DPS. But when we wipe because of astounding incompetence (I’m talking about healers doing sub-3k HPs, tanks not knowing what a taunt is or making the boss go taunt-immune, DPS not doing enough and not attacking the correct targets, and people dying from standing in bad), or when people actively ignore direct, correct and thorough instructions (3x raid-warned “stop DPS on the amalgamation, we need to wait for more blood to spawn”, to pull an example from a LFR-Spine I was in last week) then yeah, I’m going to tell people they’re incompetent idiots.

    It’s your first time in Dragon Soul? Good for you. The patch was released at the end of November. I was perfectly happy to explain strategies to people for the first two weeks, when everybody was new. I could deal with doing that for the first four weeks, since there was still a fair amount of new people and a relatively low number of ninja-pulling “gogogogogogo”-type folks.

    Now? The instance was released almost four months and a half ago. Take five minutes of your time and read up on strategies before you queue. Or hell, while you’re in the queue. Unless you’re a healer and/or you get extremely lucky, it takes longer than that for the queue to pop.


    1. I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but the point I made in my post was that they didn’t say “stop DPS on the amalgamation, we need to wait for more blood to spawn”. That would have been great!! That would have been wonderful!! They said “Stop DPS” and then called people idiots & typed at length about the buff issue then told people to sell the game! I have never expected detailed strats from anyone – I can’t type at all during a dungeon/raid! All I’m saying is if you’re going to say something then make it useful! They were typing anyway so the argument that there’s no time to type doesn’t stand.

      And in fairness to the group I didn’t see any of examples of the sheer stupidity you mention. I saw a group of people just trying their best.

      And since this game is for sale every day, then every day someone new comes to it & so every day there could be someone new in a group. And they might not understand the strats. They might not even know they exist. They might just think that…shocking really they can just go into a game and play and have fun without any preparation at all! And are they wrong? They’re not applying to join a raiding guild – they’re in LFR! Isn’t that for casuals? Can’t it just be fun?

      All I’m basically asking for is common decency, politeness & if you’re going to spend time typing make it useful. I don’t think it’s too much to ask.

      1. Like I said – LFR-Spine is the exception, not the rule, as on the first plate you spend more time waiting than you do actually hitting stuff.

        My point was that you shouldn’t really expect an explanation. If you _ask_ for one, then yeah, by all means get annoyed when one isn’t given… but by now, the instance has been out for long enough that people expect others will know what they mean when they say “stop DPS”, so giving the longer explanation doesn’t really occur.

        Besides, if I were new and had no clue how an encounter worked, and somebody said “stop DPS” during said encounter… well, I’d stop hitting _anything_, then, with my newly-freed, not-hitting-anything-so-can-type time, I’d ask “why?”. It baffles me that anybody would see “stop DPS” and just ignore it.

        I do agree that there should be more politeness going around. But look at it from the opposite point of view.

        You’ve done this fight a dozen times by now. Your expectation is that people know how it works. During the fight, you see that some people don’t, in fact, know the strategy, and aren’t stopping DPS on the amalgamation. So you say “STOP DPS”.

        Some people don’t stop DPS, and the amalgamation is getting closer and closer to dying without the appropriate amount of stacks. So you say “STOP DPS FOR GOD’S SAKE”.

        Some people still don’t stop. The amalgamation dies without the appropriate amount of stacks. The fight has just gotten longer and harder because people could not be bothered listening to one very simple, clear command. If this keeps happening, your healers will run out of mana, and you will wipe.

        Would you be happy?

        Yes, LFR is for casuals. And yes, it’s meant to be fun. But “casual” doesn’t mean “bad”, and it’s not very fun to wipe over and over and over because people have no idea how the fights work and don’t even bother listening to instructions. (Not to mention it’s incredibly strange to me that anybody who plays the game casually wouldn’t want to make sure runs are as efficient as possible. If you only have 3 hours a week to play the game, why would you want to spend them dying over and over and over to stupid mistakes?)

        Also, I seriously have my doubts that anybody could’ve gotten to 85 and into LFR without doing _any_ group content and realizing that 1. strategies exist 2. the basic expectation is for everybody to be aware of them. It happens in 5-man heroics, content which people supposedly do before getting into LFR. (I have absolutely zero sympathy for people who hit 85 without having ever done group content, buy PVP gear to boost their ilvl, go into LFR and expect it to be rainbows, flowers and butterflies.)

        That said – some people are just dicks, and will yell and call people idiots (and worse) at the slightest provocation, whether it’s warranted or not. Shrug, ignore them, move on. Don’t let them upset you. It’s not worth it.

        (Uh. Sorry for the tl;dr. I have Important Feelings and Opinions, clearly. I should probably just go do this on my own blog.)

      2. You’re more than welcome to post your views here!! And I do understand what you’re saying. It is frustrating to wipe after wipe because of silly mistakes & in particular people not listening & if I thought people were doing it because they could’t care, were lazy, troublemakers etc I wouldn’t like it one bit. As a tank (for all of my 60 odd levels!!) I got frustrated every time DPS pulled before the healer & I were ready, & as a healer I hated it when dps would pull crazily then make me use up all my mana trying to keep them alive.

        But that said it is a fact that some people will make mistakes, may have read the strategy & not have understood it. For example, I’m still nervous about doing Spine again now because until I experience it again I’m worried I’ll mess up even knowing what the strategy is – it’s just words until I do it properly, switch my target etc & in the madness of it all what if I mess up or don’t switch quickly enough (though from what you say there’s plenty of time – I just need to get back in there now & do it!!!)

        I agree if people don’t ask they don’t get. But sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know- so when you start doing something wrong & someone is going to say something then I think it should at least be helpful. The experienced person might have done the encounter a million times – the person doing it wrong might have never done it.

        What would be great I think is if you could choose who you ran with – so in my case it would be – inexperienced people (we’ll fail together!), or experienced but very very patient, no rush, group that wants to just enjoy the game. It’s interesting what you say about if you only have 3 hours to play the game why would you want to spend it dying over & over again – I wouldn’t to be honest but that said if I was in a fun group, exploring new content, having a laugh & basically enjoying myself it might be the best 3 hours ever even if I died several times throughout! Not everyone wants to progress in the same way in WoW – the game is so rich you can be there- even in LFR – for a number of different reasons. But the system puts people with different approaches together and maybe therein lies there problem.

        Oooh – that feels like a post all of it’s own now! I’ll have to get cracking on that! Thank you for commenting & making me think about this more – I genuinely appreciate hearing your views!

      3. “It’s interesting what you say about if you only have 3 hours to play the game why would you want to spend it dying over & over again – I wouldn’t to be honest but that said if I was in a fun group, exploring new content, having a laugh & basically enjoying myself it might be the best 3 hours ever even if I died several times throughout!”

        Nothing wrong with dying repeatedly in a fun group, exploring new content and getting better and better at it until you defeat the encounter. If you ask me, raiding should be like that at all levels, from the incredibly casual to the very hardcore.

        That’s what we do in my current guild. Except we do it 5 days a week, 4 hours each day, so we class as hardcore. 😉 But we definitely have fun!

        (Granted, not all hardcore raiding guilds are like that. I’ve been in guilds where I would genuinely dread raid time, because most of the people in the team were egotistical dicks. But we’re not all bad!)

        But when you are dying over and over to a stupid, easily-avoidable mistake, made by somebody who just plain doesn’t listen… then it gets frustrating.

        I do agree with you that it’s the fact that everybody gets dropped together in LFR causing these issues. The people who’ve done the encounters tons of times before get frustrated at the people who are making easily-avoidable mistakes (either because of stupidity or because of not knowing the encounter), and the new people get frustrated at the experienced people for yelling at them, not explaining, etc.

        (And everybody gets annoyed at the trolls who just wipe the raid on purpose. Those, too, exist. Grrrr.)

        Splitting the runs – so inexperienced people get dropped in only with other inexperienced people or patient experienced people, and the experienced people who just want to clear it fast get a group full of people just like them – would fix the issue, but there’s no easy way of doing that, unfortunately.

        An easy solution, I guess, would be to make LFR difficulty exclusive – so you either run LFR, normal mode or heroic mode – but I don’t see Blizzard doing that. (And I personally would be very sad if that happened. Being able to get the 4-set bonus on our tanks using some LFR gear made a massive difference in our early heroic progression, for instance.)

      4. The worst is if people deliberately try to cause wipes. I have been in a group where the three dps were doing that. No idea why. They just seemed to take an instant dislike to the tank and decided to give him a real hard time. I don’t know why me & the tank just didn’t leave but I think it became a battle of wills. I wouldn’t heal them & they didn’t care! In the end the tank &I just stood in one place & waited for them to get bored & leave. They danced around us for ages. It was all very ridiculous. Don’t know what they were getting out of that.

        Yes you’re right about making LFR difficulty exclusive as a possible easy solution but that would disadvantage people needing to get gear for the early raid heroic progression. There is no easy answer. I’ve not been back in LFR in the last few days but the guild I’m in do LFR every Thurs so I’m thinking of joining them next week & giving it a go.

  13. I blame the grind.

    As others have posted, it is actual pros that are the worst. LFR is the best place to grind once you get your character maxed out. This is true to some extent for mains, due to the tokens, but it is especially true for alts.

    It was the same way in random trolls when they were top level, and random heroics back in Lich King. Most of the people where had done it a million times, were totally jaded, and were just trying to grind out their next emblem of whatsit as fast as possible.

    To find friendly players, get off the grind path. Random normals I have found to be completely different. You meet lots of people that aren’t in so much of a rush.

    1. Yes that’s a good point. When I did Burning Crusade heroics I posted about how lovely everyone was & so not what I was expecting. People seemed to be doing it just because they enjoyed it. It made a difference!

    1. Just read your post too. I am in awe you went in as a tank. Although Bravetank is a tank – in LFR I went in as Seashell my mage. So totally not as daring as you! Really glad it went well. I’ve had better experiences since too though I’m glad to say (although the Spine bit still brought out the worst in people when I went in again on Saturday!!)

      1. Tanking as become the only way for me to run instances as I am not quick enough on the controls to be a melee DPS however think about trying it and getting another set of gear to be a ret pally off spec. I do feel it though from time to time, I forgot the name of the HoT dungeon where you have to take the adds out and not the boss I have nothing but trouble there to be honest. If it wasn’t for reassurance from a guild member I probably wouldn’t of tried LFR. This soon, I would of play around with the idea first. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

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